'It's a moral obligation'

DW: Mr. Lacoste, at the end of the year, politicians from all 196 United Nations (UN) member states will come together in Paris to negotiate a new climate treaty to regulate greenhouse gas emissions. It's the most important climate conference of this decade as nothing more is on the table than saving our planet. Yet for many, climate change is quite a dry and off-putting topic. Why should people still care about the climate conference?

Philippe Lacoste: It's funny that you use the word "dry" because it's indeed a dry topic. We are currently experiencing extreme weather conditions, such as heat waves and water scarcity, which are both related to climate change. The effects of climate change are not only a theory, they are occurring right now.

And that's why 196 countries will meet in Paris at the end of the year. They all have different ideas on how to tackle climate change but we are working together to keep global warming below two degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit), which is ambitious. We have been discussing a new climate change agreement for quite some time now and we want to finally deliver a treaty in Paris. And that’s why this conference is exciting and important.

So what's the climate treaty going to be about exactly?

We already have long term goals, like limiting global warming to below two degrees Celsius, which we might note down in the treaty. We might also name other goals in order to achieve this long term goal of keeping global warming down, for example cutting greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 by a certain level. Besides that we also have to find a way to help countries already suffering from climate change, like small island states.

Which countries will play a vital role in the negotiation process?

The main emitters of greenhouse gases. Among the developed countries those are the United States, the European Union and Russia. And from the so-called developing world that would be China and India. Those are the most important countries to have on board, because if you want to reduce emissions, their contribution is the vital.

What's going to be the main challenge of COP21?

The main challenge will be to actually reach a legally binding and universal agreement. It's a difficult task because that means all 196 members states will have to come to an agreement. But according to the UN system, every state has a right to veto, so Tuvalu with 10,000 people has the same right to veto as large countries like the US and China.

So if some countries can't agree on key issues then we have to find a solution and rephrase these issues in the treaty until every country agrees. It’s like bargaining when you buy a house.

So in order to get all 196 UN member states to reach an agreement, politicians will discuss and argue daily into the night. What exactly happens behind closed doors during these 12 days?

It's not really happening behind closed doors. A lot of it is actually happening in public and is open to observers. We have a written text and we'll discuss the sentences, the structure and the words of the agreement. And every country has the right to state their ideas and make proposals so that at the end we have a text written by all countries. So you can picture delegates working on the screen and changing words, using brackets when they don't agree with a certain part. So at the end we want to have a text without any brackets that everyone agrees with.

So let's say all 196 countries somehow manage to agree and sign this "legally binding" treaty, what happens if a country doesn’t stick to its requirements? Or if a country backs out, like Canada did after signing the Kyoto Protocol, our current climate treaty?

We don’t have any police or international sanctions or green helmets coming for these countries. It’s just peer review. You commit to a certain number of measures and five years later you come together and you say: "We didn't reach our objective for this and this reason." Or maybe: "We over-performed." But there is no international court for environment, although this has been proposed for years.

How binding is this so-called "legally binding" treaty then, if there is no law enforcement to make sure promises are kept?

There may be sanctions or legal rules at a national level. Many countries have adopted clean air acts, so if they don't follow these rules they can be put in front of a national court. But in the end, it’s a moral obligation. If countries sign the treaty and afterwards they back out again or they don't stick to it, they lose their credibility. So it’s not binding in terns of international law, but it is binding in terms of international relations.

Many people have lost hope in international climate politics and don't believe that climate conferences like COP21 will have a true impact. What would you tell these skeptics?

I understand their position. The UN system can sometimes be frustrating, because it gives every state the right to veto, so it doesn't go as quickly as you'd sometimes want it to. But I think that things are changing and there is a lot of initiative from local cities, companies and coalitions. That shows that people are now considering climate change as an important issue.

And that's also something we want to show in Paris: Even if it is difficult to decide on an agreement because there are too many people and opinions in a room, things can still happen. I think people don't deny the phenomenon anymore. The problem is to find a collective system to deal with the issue. And that should be a system that involves everyone, not only states. That's something we're trying to achieve in Paris.

What would be the best possible outcome of COP21?

The best possible outcome would be to achieve an agreement in then end. And this agreement won't be the end of the story, but rather a new beginning, a new system. And I really hope we will be able to get that done.

Philippe Lacoste is the deputy ambassador for climate change negotiations for the French delegation of COP21, the UN climate conference in Paris, which will be hosted by France at the end of the year.